Remember this? After 79 games, the 2011 Phillies were preventing runs at a fantastic rate and looked, at least compared to the rest of the National League, like they would wind up better overall than the 2008, 2009 or 2010 teams.
And despite the disappointment of the post-season, I think they were. The table below shows the runs scored and allowed by the Phils since 2008 compared to the rest of the league as well as the same numbers for the team that actually won the World Series that year (in 2008 the Phillies were the World Series winner, so there’s only one entry for that season):
| TM | W | R/G | Lg Rank | Lg Avg | RA/G | Lg Rank | Lg Avg | Ttl | ||
| ’11 PHI | 102 | 4.40 | 7 | 4.13 | 1.07 | 3.27 | 1 | 4.16 | 0.79 | .28 |
| ’11 STL | 90 | 4.70 | 1 | 4.13 | 1.14 | 4.27 | 9 | 4.16 | 1.03 | .11 |
| ’10 PHI | 97 | 4.77 | 2 | 4.33 | 1.10 | 3.95 | 4 | 4.35 | 0.91 | .19 |
| ’10 SF | 92 | 4.30 | 9 | 4.33 | 0.99 | 3.60 | 2 | 4.35 | 0.83 | .16 |
| ’09 PHI | 93 | 5.06 | 1 | 4.46 | 1.14 | 4.38 | 6 | 4.49 | 0.98 | .16 |
| ’09 NYY | 103 | 5.65 | 1 | 4.82 | 1.17 | 4.65 | 7 | 4.75 | 0.98 | .19 |
| ’08 PHI | 92 | 4.93 | 3 | 4.54 | 1.09 | 4.20 | 3 | 4.63 | 0.91 | .18 |
So, for example, the ’11 Phils scored 4.40 runs per game, which was seventh in the league and about 1.07 times (or 107% of) the NL average of 4.13 runs per game. They allowed a league-best 3.27 runs per game, which was about 0.79 times the NL average. If you add .07 (.07 better for at scoring runs than the league average) and .21 (.21 better at preventing runs) you get the .28 that appears in the right-most column. In the same year, the St Louis team that won the World Series was much better during the regular season at scoring runs, but much worse at preventing them.
The table above suggests . . .
- The 2011 Phillies were better during the regular season than the Phillies teams of 2008, 2009 or 2010.
- The 2011 Phillies excelled at preventing runs, but were near league average at scoring runs. From 2008 to 2010, the Phils were no worse than third in the NL in runs scored per game before dropping to seventh in 2011.
- In each of the last four seasons, the Phils have been in the top half of the NL in both scoring and preventing runs.
- In each of the last two seasons, the Phils have been ousted from the post-season by a team that excelled at either scoring or preventing runs, but was also in the bottom half of the league in allowing or scoring based on runs per game. The Cards were ninth-best in the NL in runs allowed per game in 2011 and the Giants were ninth-best in the NL in runs scored per game in 2010.
- After getting a little worse in 2009 after winning the World Series in 2008, the Phillies have gotten better in 2010 and 2011.
- In 2010 and 2011, the Phillies were better during the regular season than the NL team that 1) knocked them out of the playoffs and 2) won the World Series.
- The ’09 Yankees were better than the ’09 Phillies — or at least were better relative to the rest of the AL than the Phils were relative to the rest of the NL.
If you had to pick one thing to focus on from that table, I think it’s how few runs the Phils allowed in 2011 compared to the rest of the NL. That carried them to much better numbers overall, despite the fact that the offense got worse. How much worse, though? Look at the offensive numbers for 2008 and 2010. Clearly the offense was better in those seasons — third in the NL in runs scored per game in 2008 and second in 2010. The 2011 Phils were seventh, but the runs they scored per game compared to the average for the league didn’t drop off by a huge amount. In 2011, they scored about 107% of the runs per game as the average NL team. In 2008 they scored 109% and in 2010 they scored 110%.
In 2011, there was a huge dropoff between the team that scored the seventh-most runs (the Phils) and the team that scored the eighth-most (the Cubs). The Phils scored 713 for the year and the Cubs scored 654 — the Phils, with the seventh-most runs in the league, were actually closer in runs scored to the Cardinals (who led the NL in runs scored) than they were to the Cubs, who were eighth in the league in scoring. The Phils scored 59 runs more than the Cubs and 49 less than the Cards.
The Phillies signed Jim Thome to a one-year deal worth $1.25 million. That is a great signing.
Getting Michael Cuddyer would be rather fantastic as well.


November 7th, 2011 on 3:04 pm
Maybe I’ve been under a rock, but.. who’s Michael Cuddyer?
November 7th, 2011 on 3:33 pm
Cuddyer has been an AL guy with the Twins his whole career, but he would be a huge help to the Phillies.
Minnesota took him with the ninth pick in the 1997 draft (seven picks after the Phils took JD Drew). He’s 32 and right-handed. He can play first and second as well as the corner OF positions (although he’s played a lot more right than left). He’s also played third in the past, although he didn’t play there in 2011.
He’s a solid hitter. 272/343/451 for his career. In 2009 he hit 32 home runs, which was a career high. 15-20 is probably a more reasonable expectation. He stays healthy — he’s gotten at least 575 plate appearances in five of the last six years. He’s better against lefties, but good enough to play against righties. I assume if he joined the Phils it would be primarily to help in left, although he could presumably fill in around the infield. If he can play third at all he would be a significant upgrade over Polanco, but I doubt he can. He has only started 13 games at third since 2005. Still he would be a good guy to have around — if there’s any way he can play third he’s a great guy to have around.
November 8th, 2011 on 10:13 am
Well, ok. But if he can’t be the starting 3rd baseman, I’m not excited.
November 8th, 2011 on 10:56 am
I do like the Thome signing. I guess if you’re going to have a left handed power hitter on the bench who can’t really play the field, you may as well have one that can actually, you know, show some power. At the same time, if this team really wants to get younger, not sure how this helps.
The Cuddyer signing would be nice too, I just think he is going to get too expensive for the needs that this team has.
I’m OK with 2/3 of a season of Polanco and 1/3 of the fill-in based upon the available options at third. Would be nice to see them trade for somebody, but would rather them sign somebody to play shortstop. Pete Orr, Wilson Valdez, Michael Martinez, and/or Freddy Galvis for 1/3 of a season at third is more palatable than that 4-headed monster for a full season at short.
November 8th, 2011 on 12:50 pm
Thome is filling the Stairs / Sweeney / Gload role. I’m fine with that. I just hope he can slug while riding the bench, and I hope he can play first enough to spell Howard.
Madson signing is very close, says SI’s John Heyman on twitter.
Unlike you, Greg, I’m having a difficult time caring who plays short. If we can get production and power out of 3rd base, and the shortstop can play D, I don’t see much of an issue. Of course, the Phils have been trying the last few years to have a Yankee-esk lineup (i.e. no automatic outs, at least with the starting 8). I don’t know if that’s an attainable goal though.
November 8th, 2011 on 1:33 pm
I think Thome is significantly than Stairs, Sweeney or Gload. At least he has been in the last few years. He’ll surely cool off sometime soon, but hopefully not this year.
Rollins isn’t a great offensive player, but he’s a lot better than the in-house options for the Phils and would give the Phils above-average production at the position. I think the dropoff offensively for the Phils if they play Valdez/Orr/Galvis at short instead of Rollins in 2012 is significant.
I think it’s unlikely the Phils bring in someone good to play third in 2012 — although I would be up for Greg’s trade to get one for the final third of the season.
I’m more excited about the possibility of Cuddyer than Greg. I think he would help, but I don’t think there’s much chance he can play third.
November 8th, 2011 on 1:57 pm
Don’t get me wrong. I think Cuddyer would be a great fit for this team. It’s just that what I’ve heard of his possible contract would seem to make him too expensive for what the Phillies are looking for. Unless they think he can play third regularly that is. Maybe the plan is to put Thome back at third?
November 8th, 2011 on 4:07 pm
I hear Pat Burrell played third in college. How old is Mike Schmidt anyway?
I sure don’t know, but I’d guess that 1) sentiment is Cuddyer can’t play third and 2) the reason he can’t play third has more to do with throwing to first than catching the ball.
November 8th, 2011 on 6:27 pm
I like the Cuddyar idea pretty much in any case, but it is pretty hard to talk about needs until we know what will happen at shirt, ya know?
November 8th, 2011 on 6:28 pm
Um, I assume y’all can figure out that I meant SHORT, not shirt.
November 8th, 2011 on 7:17 pm
I think the Phils may be one windbreaker away from winning it all this year.
I agree about short being important. I’m hoping for one of Martinez/Valdez and their ilk with 200+ plate appearances this year. That duo combined for 534 last year. That’s too many.
November 8th, 2011 on 7:22 pm
Shirt. Windbreaker. Joke, right. Ha Ha. lol
Won’t be funny if it actually IS Martinez/Valdez though, will it.
November 8th, 2011 on 7:46 pm
That would not be funny at all. Looks like Cuddyer met with the Phils today.
http://twitter.com/#!/thesreder/status/134056142153326592
November 8th, 2011 on 8:34 pm
Yeah, Cuddyer in today and out this evening. And the Zo Zone is talking about 4 years and $44 million for Madsen, maybe by the end of the week.
November 9th, 2011 on 8:35 pm
It’s Madsen. NO. It’s Papelbon. No. It’s… a player to be named later.
November 9th, 2011 on 9:26 pm
At this rate, Herndon will be our closer.
November 9th, 2011 on 10:16 pm
Not nice to say outloud, Jim. Not nice at all. Brr.
November 10th, 2011 on 9:34 am
If the Phils can get Madson for three years instead of four, I’m all for it. Hopefully they don’t get people mad enough they get him for zero.
I had somehow forgotten that the Phillies have to pay Contreras $2.5 million this year. That could be better.
November 10th, 2011 on 11:12 am
He’ll be on the DL by May 1 and the Phils will collect the insurance on him. As always. That doesn’t concern me.
DM I figure if I just suggest the worst case, we’ll be pleasantly surprised with whatever happens.
November 10th, 2011 on 4:37 pm
Heyman’s reporting that Montgomery is likely to reject Madson deal. If he does, if I’m Amaro, I quit on the spot.
November 10th, 2011 on 9:30 pm
No word yet. ARGH
November 10th, 2011 on 10:03 pm
All the Montgomery is going to say no, we really love Papelbon stuff — let’s just hope it all works out. It would be disappointing if Madson wound up somewhere else.
November 11th, 2011 on 8:04 am
Agreed. The length of contract issue does give the whole Montgomery disapproval thingy credibility.
November 11th, 2011 on 10:38 am
Why have a GM if you’re going to second-guess him on a verbally agreed contract because you think it should be 3 years instead of 4?
The CEO should be choosing the baseball people to run the operation for him. Not reading the fine print on every contract. This is Steinbrenner-style meddling, only in reverse (too conservative rather than too risky), and I don’t like it one bit.
Because the contract was already agreed, if Montgomery denies it, you can expect Boras won’t allow Madson to stay in Philly at all. They could offer him 3/39 instead of 4/44, and it won’t fly. And I’m not terribly excited about the other options – I feel like Papelbon’s best days are behind him.
November 11th, 2011 on 11:10 am
I think Papelbon still has good years left. I’d be okay with either him or Madson at the back of the pen. If all the games wind up with the Phils signing one of them to a better contract than they would have gotten otherwise, I think that’s good for the team. If they mess around and don’t get either of them, that would be a pretty big problem. My guess is that won’t happen.
November 11th, 2011 on 12:22 pm
Am I overreacting here? I’m less concerned about the ultimate result, and more concerned about the process and what that means for anyone else who might have considered signing in Philly.
November 11th, 2011 on 1:19 pm
I don’t know for sure if there was a genuine disagreement where Montgomery said Amaro can’t sign Madson to the deal he wants, or the Phils have manufactured a reason not to sign Madson to the deal they had worked on to try to 1) get Madson to sign to a better deal for the Phils or 2) try to get Papelbon to sign to a deal better than the one they had worked on with Madson. If there’s a true situation where Amaro makes a deal and then Montgomery says no, I think that’s a big issue. I think we have to wait to see what happens before evaluating. For me, signing either Madson or Papelbon would be great for the Phils. Signing neither would be a big problem.
November 11th, 2011 on 2:24 pm
Jim Salisbury says the Phils have a deal with Papelbon.
https://twitter.com/#!/JSalisburyCSN/status/135073246478467072
November 11th, 2011 on 2:43 pm
But can he play 3rd?
Don’t know why, but I just don’t like him. He started coming off as a diva and/or choker in Boston.
November 11th, 2011 on 2:47 pm
Not losing a first-round pick seems like a good reason to bring Madson back instead of adding Papelbon. But I do think that Papelbon can still pitch. Not sure it’s over yet.
If the deal is four years, close to $50 million and they chose not to give Madson four years for less money, I think the Phils made a mistake.
http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/news/Sources-Phils-reach-deal-with-Papelbon?blockID=592376&feedID=704
November 11th, 2011 on 3:57 pm
Maybe Boras just flat out misplayed his hand and tried to get to much for too long. I don’t know. I know that Madsen has more than one pitch. That to me is the big upside of Madsen because when Papelbon’s flamethrower goes out, so will he. Still, the man has long experience closing out tough games against the best in baseball.
November 11th, 2011 on 3:59 pm
MLB.com says 4 years for about $50 million.
November 11th, 2011 on 4:07 pm
It includes a fifth year vesting option.
November 11th, 2011 on 4:34 pm
When I first read this, I thought ‘oh boy’
Then I though about what Jim said earlier about if Monty really did shutdown Amaro on the Madson deal then what is going on now? Seriously. Papelbon must have pictures… Also, with this sort of money going to a closer over 30 then bust out the checkbook b/c money is no object… might as well sign Albert and get Prince as a bat off the bench.
Anyways… I never cared much for Papelbon but that was mostly b/c he played for Boston. I like a guy who gets fired up and Papelbon does that. Plus, he can still pitch.
November 11th, 2011 on 4:40 pm
You know, the more i think about this, the deeper this goes. If Madson/Phils really had a wink/nudge agreement, that gets done right?? I mean why would that be a lie? Did Monty drop the hammer or is it Boras stiring the pot? Or is it the digital age we live in where speculation sells? It seems like every year more and more stories are broke just for the sake of breaking them to find out there was no crediable source behind them. Eh, i could go on and on here but I’ll stop.
On a side note, should we take Madson off the board? I mean, Bastardo = 7, Madson = 8 and Papelbon = 9 sounds good to me!
November 11th, 2011 on 5:26 pm
Madsen in the 8th works for me.
November 11th, 2011 on 7:37 pm
Madson’s officially a proven closer now. No way he takes 8th inning money, and no way Phils pay him closer money to set up.
Interesting point about Boras stirring the pot. That’s probably the most likely explanation. He’s not the agent you want if you’re happy with your current team and want to stay there.
November 11th, 2011 on 7:55 pm
I agree, Jim. Madsen will close somewhere. He is done doing set up work.
And I too think Boras is at the root of this somewhere. When I texted a buddy of mine today about our new closer, his response was, “Wow! Boras really messed up!”
November 11th, 2011 on 8:25 pm
I think Madson gets to close somewhere, too. On the picks, if Madson goes to another team the Phils get the pick as well — so it’s not like they are losing the pick by signing Papelbon if Madson goes elsewhere. Still, I think there’s a good chance Madson will be better than Papelbon over the next four years and the Phils look willing to give Papelbon more money.
November 11th, 2011 on 10:43 pm
Boston is screaming. There is speculation up there that they go after Madsen now.
November 11th, 2011 on 10:53 pm
Fox Sports are reporting that the Fish have made “substantial offers” to both Pujols AND Reyes.
November 12th, 2011 on 7:55 am
Fish also make offer to Mark Buehrle.
November 12th, 2011 on 11:19 am
So, what do you think? Do we need to factor money into this off season at all? Or do the Phillies pretty much have the money to get anyone they want? I mean, how else do we read signing Papelbon for potentially $60 million (that 5th year vesting thingy) over home grown Madsen for $44 million? I cannot believe that Boras ticked the front office off enough that they acted impetuously and now are short on funds to fill their other needs (corner outfield, right handed power, left side of the infield).
I wonder what the budget limit really is for these guys right now. I wonder if anyone is really beyond their reach if they want the guy. I wonder what is next. This isn’t the Philly we once knew, Toto.
November 12th, 2011 on 5:45 pm
Could the Phils challenge the yankees for the payroll crown this year? That’s a sight I never thought I’d see.
November 13th, 2011 on 8:59 pm
It seems to me that the Phillies don’t think that Madson is as good as I do. Hope they are right, but it will be interesting to see what Papelbon and Madson do over the next couple of years.
November 13th, 2011 on 10:47 pm
So is Rollins or Cuddyer next to rise or fall?
November 14th, 2011 on 10:27 am
I’m still not sure how I feel about this deal. Ask me in four years. Either signing was a big overspend on the closer if you ask me. But, nobody did…again.
November 14th, 2011 on 2:44 pm
I am also kind of surprised how much they spent to bring in Papelbon. It will be interesting to see what happens with Madson and how he does over the next few years. If I had to pick now, I would say I’d rather have Madson for the contract he’s about to sign than Papelbon for 4/$50. At the same time, it’s nice to have Papelbon. Also nice to have Thome for $1.25 million.
November 14th, 2011 on 3:54 pm
I do think they overspent a bit, regardless of the next four years. I just wonder if ANY closer (ok, ok, Rivera) is worth that money. But I am happy to have him. And the hysteria in Boston makes me giggle.
I also seen notes that Boras is not happy with the Phillies. That is worth a couple million, right there.
November 14th, 2011 on 9:29 pm
It’s being reported that the Fish have now made an offer to Madsen. That’s four big offers on the table at the same time. Yikes.
November 14th, 2011 on 9:57 pm
Yeah. It seems like a lot of guys if the Fish get them all. Pujols, Reyes and Hanley Ramirez would be the start of a pretty good infield. I don’t think it’s time to throw in the towel, though.
November 14th, 2011 on 10:49 pm
Nope. No towel throwing here. But after years of penury, FOUR major free agent bids? At the same time? Who ARE these guys? And what have they done with the old Fish?
November 15th, 2011 on 9:49 am
They left them in Ft. Lauterdale.
New look, new name, new stadium, they’re going all in. Kinda like the Phils did when CBP opened.