In this article, Amaro suggests that the benefit the Phillies get from having the big three, Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt, in the rotation all year in 2011 may offset the offensive loss the Phils are going to suffer having lost Werth.
He says:
Let me put it to you this way: Having those three starters through a full season, I think, negates the difference in the production I think we’ll get from the combination of Ben [Francisco] and [Ross] Gload vs. Werth.
I think it’s tough to try and predict what the Phillies right fielders are going to do next year, mostly because we don’t know who they are going to be. I’m having trouble believing it’s going to be Francisco and Gload. If Ross Gload plays 40 games in the outfield next season he’ll be doing so for the first time in his career at age 35. He has one year of his career in which he has played more than 19 games in the outfield, and that was 2004. I’m not saying it’s not gonna happen, but it’s not gonna happen.
I think it’s pretty tough to predict accurately the number of runs the Phillies are going to allow in starts made by Oswalt next year. What we should be able to do, though, is look at the number of runs they allowed in his starts last year and figure out how many they would have saved in 2010 if he had made more starts and the number of runs the Phillies allowed in games he started and games he didn’t stayed the same.
The table below shows, for each of the Phillies starting pitchers who made at least ten starts, the number of runs the team allowed in their starts and the number of runs the team allowed in the games they didn’t start:
| Starts | Team RA | Team RA per start |
Games not started |
Team RA those games |
Team RA per game not started |
|
| Hamels | 33 | 117 | 3.55 | 129 | 523 | 4.05 |
| Halladay | 33 | 90 | 2.73 | 129 | 550 | 4.26 |
| Oswalt | 12 | 25 | 2.08 | 150 | 615 | 4.10 |
| Kendrick | 31 | 148 | 4.77 | 131 | 492 | 3.76 |
| Blanton | 28 | 150 | 5.36 | 134 | 490 | 3.66 |
| Moyer | 19 | 91 | 4.79 | 143 | 549 | 3.84 |
| Others | 6 | 19 | 3.17 | 156 | 621 | 3.98 |
| Total | 162 | 640 | 3.95 |
So, for example, Hamels made 33 starts for the Phils in 2010. In those 33 starts, the Phillies (not just Hamels, but the relievers who pitched after him in those games as well) allowed 117 runs. That’s 3.55 runs per game. There were 129 games in the 2010 regular season that Hamels did not start. In those games the Phils allowed 523 runs or 4.05 per game.
Oswalt made 12 starts last year. If he had pitched a full season for the Phils, he would have made about 20 more. Based on his 2010 numbers as a Phillie, over 20 starts, Oswalt would have allowed about 41.7 runs. Over those same 20 starts, using the rate for 2010 at which the Phils allowed runs in games not started by Oswalt, they would have allowed about 82.0 runs (4.1 * 20). So, if the 2010 numbers played out over the extra 20 starts, the Phillies would have allowed 40.3 fewer runs on the season by giving 20 more starts to Oswalt.
That’s a ton. You don’t need great production in right field to get within 40.3 runs of what Werth produced in 2010, as good as he was.
So fantastic. No problem here. Bring on the suck in right field. Play anyone you want and we’ll all be fine. Right?
Not right. Oswalt was ridiculously fantastic with the Phils in 2010, throwing to a 1.74 ERA with an 0.90 ratio. In his 12 starts with the Phils, he was better than Halladay and Halladay won the Cy Young. Oswalt isn’t going to be nearly as good with the Phillies in 2011 as he was in 2010.
So, how many fewer runs might the Phillies allow thanks to a full season from Oswalt? I don’t know. But I think a lot less than 40.3 is a good guess.
Here’s a look at the numbers for Oswalt, Hamels and Halladay over 20 games based on the 2010 numbers:
| Team RA per 20 starts |
Team RA per 20 starts by other SP |
Runs saved | |
| Hamels | 70.9 | 81.1 | 10.2 |
| Halladay | 54.5 | 85.3 | 30.7 |
| Oswalt | 41.7 | 82.0 | 40.3 |
The number of runs that the team allows in a game has a lot to do with factors out of the control of the starting pitcher — most important, of course, is how many runs that the team’s bullpen allows in games that pitcher starts. Again, if the Phillies replicated the numbers from 2010 in 2011 exactly, it suggests that they would allow about 40.3 fewer runs by giving Oswalt 20 more starts.
It also suggests that they would allow about 30.7 fewer runs by giving Halladay 20 more starts, though, and Halladay still won the Cy Young award last season. 30.7 is still a lot of runs, but the 10.2 runs saved number for 20 more starts for Hamels isn’t. If we’re going to guess Oswalt’s numbers for next year, I think we’re pretty safe saying that they are going to be closer than the 3.06 ERA and 1.18 ratio that Hamels put up than the 2.44 ERA and 1.04 ratio Halladay put up.
So, bottom line, how many fewer runs are the Phillies going to save in 2011 if they give Oswalt 20 more starts? I don’t know. Neither do you and neither does anybody, no matter what the bullpen does in the games that Oswalt starts. I do think it’s safer to say that it’s a lot closer to 10.2 than it is to 40.3, and if it turns out being anywhere near 10.2, the Phils are going to have trouble getting within 10.2 of the offensive runs created by Werth in 2010.
This says that the Phillies have reached an agreement with 33-year-old left-handed reliever Dennys Reyes and that the Phils will pay Reyes $1.1 million in 2011 with a $1.35 million club option for 2012.
Finally, in news of people you assumed you would never, ever need to have an opinion about, Luke Scott has given a memorable interview.


December 9th, 2010 on 10:44 am
This is exactly the stance I didn’t want them to have. They better cut 5,000 outfield seats and raise the walls to Monster-level if they want a pitching-based club in CBP.
Incidentally, I did a quick peek at what would happen if we replaced Oswalt’s Philly starts with Happ’s Houston starts. As much as I like Happ.. well.. not good. I hoped to be able to claim that a full year of Oswalt is only a few runs better than a full year of Happ, but the numbers do not support that claim.
I do expect the full year runs saved for Oswalt to be closer to 15-20. I also think Hamels’ will rise to a similar number.
December 9th, 2010 on 10:59 am
I really agree with Jim. The stance that H2O will cover for losing Werth’s offense is troubling. It is the stance of being “good enough” rather than wanting to be excellent. That mindset is the mindset of ten years ago. It is disturbing to me. Now, Amaro may have cards yet to play but if he thinks he can fill the Bank by just being good enough he really does not get the Philly fan.
One other thing that has occurred to me is the degree to which H2O was as good as they were re: runs allowed because of Werth’s glove. Any thoughts?
December 9th, 2010 on 12:31 pm
I’m not sure about how much the number for Hamels is going to rise next year. Maybe he ran into some bad luck with the pen in his games, but it also seems reasonable to think that his numbers could be worse in 2011 as well. I think 15-20 for both Oswalt and Hamels is a little too much.
I think you can still argue that the Phils would be better off with Happ than Oswalt in the long run. Even though Oswalt is a lock to have better production in 2011, he’s also going to make a whole lot more money (unless Happ gets $16 million in arbitration, which would be kind of a big raise from $470,000 last season). The Phils could have gotten several more years out of Happ — it’s not as clear how many more they are going to get from Oswalt.
It’s an interesting point about Werth’s defense. I hadn’t thought of that at all. Not sure what the answer is.
Also, seven years, $142 million for Crawford is too much, too.
December 9th, 2010 on 1:50 pm
Whatever the case may be, Werth is gone and there was no way he was going to be a Phillie, at least not based on the contract he signed. There is/was just no way that the Phils could match that. I think the day that Werth signed on with Scott Boras it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he was going to sign elsewhere.
I really don’t think that Amaro is done shopping for RF’s yet. He has until July 31st to work something out. I figure they’ll probably go into the year with Glocisco in RF and call up Brown after a month or two in AAA to replace Gload in the platoon. If that doesn’t work out well, then by the end of next July RAJ will make a trade.
December 9th, 2010 on 5:45 pm
I agree Greg. Further, if they HAD matched those numbers for Werth, I would have bloody screamed.
Boss, I cannot believe that I thought of something you did not think of. But I am certain you will ferret out an answer soon. LOLOL
Personally, I think that if 15-20 apiece for Oswalt and Hamels is too much, we are in DEEP trouble.
December 10th, 2010 on 9:08 am
If our goal is to win through better pitching, and our top 3 can’t save at each save at least 15 runs a year, this will be a third place team behind the Braves and .. uhh.. Nats. (Actually, 2nd place is up for grabs.. Marlins lost Uggla, Mets are rebuilding, Nats traded Dunn for Werth and are otherwise still irrelevent.)
–
If I had any idea that the Nats spelled Werth P-U-J-O-L-S, and that Jayson has had his fill of playoffs for his career and just wants money for his great-grandkids, I could have gotten behind a trade. But I don’t know what trade they could have made that would have gotten us a championship last year.
December 10th, 2010 on 11:08 am
Well, Re: Runs Saved.. I think there’s some trickery to the formula. Some of the numbers for H20 get inflated by the number of games started by everyone else. E.g., Halladay’s “Runs Saved” goes down if Oswalt’s numbers are projected for the year and starts from other people are removed, because the number is relative to other Philly pitchers. I think we’d need something like Runs Allowed Above Replacement to make a reasonable comparison of last year and projection of next year.
If we had a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Lincecum, and Oswalt, I’d expect all of their “Runs Saved” based on this formula to be near 0. (Or, 0 + runs given up by spot starters due to injury or double-header.)
December 10th, 2010 on 12:02 pm
Yeah, I think the numbers above only work for looking backwards at exactly what happened and exactly what would have happened if the Phillies continued to allow runs at the identical levels they did in games started and not started by individual pitchers. They don’t work at all for looking back at what would have happened if the Phillies have given different numbers of starts to those pitchers. As you point out, if Oswalt had started 35 games instead of 12, the number of runs the Phillies would have allowed in games started by non-Halladay pitchers presumably would have been much better and the number of “saved runs” would go down for Halladay.
So I agree that we shouldn’t assume they are going to help too much looking forward. On the other hand, if we had to pick a single variable to try to predict the number of runs the Phillies will allow in 2011 in games not started by a particular pitcher, I think I would want it to be the number of runs the Phillies allowed in 2010 in games not started by that pitcher.
December 10th, 2010 on 1:00 pm
Every time I think about the Big 3 I’m struck by just how different this team is from the 2008 World Series club. The bats aren’t much different (other than a year of relative suck) but good night!
Maybe all it takes is a bunch of guys mashing for all their worth (and getting some breaks), pitching be damned.
Still. If I had to pick between the two, I’m take what we have coming into 2011 in a heartbeat. What are the odds that NONE of the batting regulars are going to bounce back a bit from what was, as a whole, a 2010 of regression? Losing Werth hurts…but the Phillies should still be really good again.
December 10th, 2010 on 1:19 pm
Eric, I’d be more apt to compare a pitcher to the pitchers he specifically displaced, rather than average in people who were already in the rotation and in no danger of pitching on 2 days rest. That’s what drove me to look at Happ, but you could also find 20 Moyer, Blanton, or Kendrick starts with which to compare.
In other news, we picked up Greg Dobbs in the Rule 5 draft. Or is it Brain Bocock? Hard to tell.
December 10th, 2010 on 4:27 pm
Ok, I have no idea what Jim is talking about. I am feeling stupid. Pretty hard for a guy with an IQ north of 130. I bow to you, Jim. Baseball stats, as much as I love’em mostly make no sense to me. Probably why I cannot do my own income tax, huh.
My concern is that we will have someone in right field who cannot use his leather above my level of skill. The is why the current crop of internal guys make me nervous, even more than their offensive skills. As much as I wanted Werth gone at the trade deadline, I knew then and I know now that he was really good out there. Defense means a lot at the Bank. An arm means a lot at the Bank. I think it means even more than a bat (which is why Howard makes me crazy sometimes, tho he has gotten better). We need someone who can amass assists from the outfield. And who can cover those corners, and go to the wall. Given who i sout there, I would kill (well, ok, hyperbole) for Aaron Rowand.
December 10th, 2010 on 5:01 pm
Reading through the comments, there seems to be an assumption that CBP is very hitter-friendly, when in fact in recent years it’s been one of the most neutral parks in baseball.
See park factors here: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
and related article here: http://www.thegoodphight.com/2010/10/14/1737862/the-phillies-home-fairest-in-the-land
December 10th, 2010 on 7:18 pm
BTW, there was no trade perhaps that would have gotten us a championship last year. But I doubt very much we would have done any worse than we did. What WOULD have heppended is that we would have gotten a couple of front line prospects who would have made this year’s openings a whole lot less miserable. Last year would have been no less successful. This year, and years to come, would have been much more bright. Amaro thinks we need to get younger; anyone disagree?. If we HAD traded Werth, we would not have won, just like we failed last year. But THIS year, we WOULD be younger. And a whole lot better off.
December 10th, 2010 on 7:26 pm
DM, I’ll try it this way:
If I want to know how many more runs Oswalt would have prevented for me over a full year, I would want to compare that to who is not starting instead of Oswalt. Would any of Halladay’s starts been replaced by Oswalt? No, his spot in the rotation is pretty firm. Hamels’? No, same.
One way to do this exercise is to compare a projected Oswalt Philly season to a projected Happ Philly season. You can do this because Happ is literally the guy Oswalt replaced; barring further injury, the starts Oswalt made would have been made by Happ instead.
Another way to do this is to realize that, due to injury, Happ made only 3 starts for the Phillies in 2010. Other people took the remainder of the starts that Happ would have had. So then the task is to identify which specific games on the schedule would have been Oswalt starts, and compare the Oswalt projected season numbers to the projected season of this specific combination of starts. You might take 3 Happ, 10 Moyer, 5 Kendrick, and 5 Blanton starts, average them out and project them over a full season, and then compare that to Oswalt’s projected full season numbers. This way can be a little bit subjective just to identify which starts would have been his, but it gets you to a number that shouldn’t change based on who the other 4 guys in the 5-man rotation are.
December 10th, 2010 on 7:28 pm
Aaron Rowand would be too much for me to handle. I agree that Howard seems like he’s gotten a lot better at catching the ball. I still have to look away every time he throws to second, though.
The advanced fielding stats say that Werth wasn’t very good in right field last year. A good arm, but below average overall. That surprises me. Anyway, I think that the loss of the bat is going to be the much bigger issue for the Phils, which is why Rowand terrifies me.
December 11th, 2010 on 2:22 pm
The concept that Werth was not particularly good in right field last year is a real surprise. Does this mean that if our “internal” solutions to right field are average they represent an improvement defensively? Curiously, it is the best news I have heard so far this off season.
The news this off season otherwise really has been uninspiring. And this one is not much of an upper.
Are there going to BE any uppers this year? The NL East looks pretty wide open to me, H2O notwithstanding.
December 13th, 2010 on 1:51 pm
I still think the Phils are the favorites to win the NL East. 97 wins last year plus Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels is pretty good.
Gload would almost surely be a butcher in right field. I don’t think that matters much, cause I’m going to be surprised if we see him out there a whole lot. The stats for Francisco as a right fielder last year are awful as well, but he only played 113 innings there. He played more innings at left last year, where his numbers were much better, slighly above average for the league. Overall as an outfiler, UZR suggests that Francisco has been a little below average over the past three years. Werth had been very good in 2007 and 2008 with the Phils, fell off in 2009 and then was below average in 2010.
I don’t think it’s right to say that our internal solutions would be an improvement. If the internal solution involves Gload playing significant time in right, it almost certainly means the Phillies are worse off. If Gload isn’t in right, I don’t think we know what the internal solution is.
December 13th, 2010 on 5:31 pm
For your late evening entertainment, Jayson Stark is tweeting that the Phillies are the “mystery team” still in the mix for Cliff Lee. He is saying that this mystery team is offering MUCH less than the Yankees, but that it is a place that “Lee loves”.
Of course, we all know how much luck we have had with Jaysons so far this year.
December 13th, 2010 on 10:30 pm
Multiple sources say that Lee IS INDEED considering the Phillies, perhaps leaving 70 million bucks on the table. and the Phillies would afford him by moving Blanton and using the money they had set apart for Werth.
Think: Halliday, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels. Imagine. Even if this does not happen, and I have a hunch it will not (I gave up on Santa years ago), just imagine. Let the four names roll off of your tongue. Savor the possibilities. (Before having your hopes crushed by reality, of course.)
So… what chemical compound has 2 molecules of Hydrogen, one of Oxygen, and one of Lithium? First one to figure it out gets the right to the royalties for all T-shirts.
December 13th, 2010 on 10:45 pm
Joel Sherman of the NY Post has just released an article saying that the NY Yankees are “extremely negative” about being able to sign Cliff Lee because he is “leaning towards the Phillies.” Stay tuned, sports fans.
December 13th, 2010 on 10:48 pm
MLB, SI, Ken Rosenthal, MANY other sources, say that Phillies have now become the major bidder for Cliff Lee. Decision may be tonight or tomorrow. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
December 14th, 2010 on 12:43 am
AMARO FOR PRESIDENT
December 14th, 2010 on 1:24 am
I CAN’T SLEEP. The Four Horsemen reside in Philly. I can’t wait to play the Yankees next year.
December 14th, 2010 on 1:50 am
You don’t tug on Superman’s cape. You don’t spit into the wind. And, it turns out, you don’t spit on Cliff Lee’s wife either.
December 14th, 2010 on 7:26 am
Awesome. Never thought it was gonna happen but sure enough… Welcome Back Cliff.
December 14th, 2010 on 8:15 am
Un-freakin-believable. Un-freakin-believable. Un-freakin-believable!
December 14th, 2010 on 8:16 am
My God. He IS coming here. I didn’t dream it! YES!
December 14th, 2010 on 9:05 am
Wow. That’s just stunning to me. One year ago today that Halladay agreed to the contract extension that got him traded to the Phils.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html
I think this almost surely means that Oswalt or Blanton won’t be in the rotation in 2011. But it sure looks like it means the Phils are a lot better than they were.
December 14th, 2010 on 9:08 am
As far as the nickname, I saw R2C2 on another site and like that.
December 14th, 2010 on 9:09 am
Ten minutes ago, Red Sox and Phils have no deal for Blanton
http://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/14680580528545792
December 14th, 2010 on 9:21 am
Blanton deal will get done at some point. Somebody will want to try it. (Rangers?)
Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt.
Cy Young winner, Cy Young winner, World Series MVP, Borderline Hall of Famer.
One of these guys might not get a start in a short playoff series.
Wow.
December 14th, 2010 on 12:57 pm
unbelievable. i am still blown away.
December 14th, 2010 on 12:59 pm
and trading Blanton ought to be a snap. he is a good pitcher. in a world where everyone needs pitching, everyone needs someone who eats innings, he will find a good home.
eric, if oswalt is the one to go, i will hold you personally responsible for even mentioning it.
December 14th, 2010 on 2:23 pm
I hope you’re right about trading Blanton. I agree he’s better than he was last year, but he due to make $17 million over the next two years coming off a 4.82 ERA season. I’d guess that Amaro knows pretty well what he’ll be able to trade him for, though.
I agree it would be better if they didn’t trade Oswalt. I’ll blame myself, too.
December 14th, 2010 on 3:13 pm
I think they will be able to move Blanton but I sure hope they dont eat salary in doing so. No point in my mind to even move him if your gonna just eat his salary. Blanton as your number 5? I’ll take that.
First thing I thought after this signing went down was ‘oh no, whos gonna go?’ (no rhyme intended). I personally really utmostly (?) hope they dont trade Oswalt. Lets see what these horses can do for a season and worry about Oswalt next year.
December 14th, 2010 on 3:17 pm
Doesn’t Oswalt have a no trade clause? Doesn’t that mean he would only go back to… wait for it… TEXAS?
NO. No. NO.
December 14th, 2010 on 5:31 pm
I think that Blanton does not have to be traded until this summer. I think there are a HOST of teams who need pitching. He ought to bring us a serious player in return… and we ought not have to eat any salary. Talk about the catbird seat. All it takes is money and an environment players want to be a part of.
I am officially glad that Werth is not here. I’ll take Lee over Werth anytime.
December 14th, 2010 on 7:15 pm
TBH I hope they give the 5th slot to someone who has a chance to grow. Worley, Carptener, etc. I’m done with Blanton, and I was very disappointed they tendered Kendrick.
December 14th, 2010 on 7:54 pm
Jim, I hear you about that 5th slot. I can only hope that someone out there really wants to take a run at Kendrick. But whoever gets that slot I hope will be someone they really think will be a player.
December 14th, 2010 on 7:59 pm
I’m actually kind of interested to see what Worley would do with the job as the fifth starter.
On Blanton, I’d guess the Phils trade him soon. I’d be thrilled to see them get someone back who could help, but I doubt it. Would also be thrilled if they don’t have to pay part of his contract, but I think they will. We’ll see.
December 14th, 2010 on 9:41 pm
I wonder how soon they will move on Blanton. He is a 200 inning guy. Aren’t there a load of teams who need thst kind of guy? I have this fantasy that they hold on till spring training. I have a hunch that they will have folks lining up. Adn will be happy t0 pay him. Like I said… I have this fantasy.